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It's Only the End if You Want it to Be

Posts tagged nightwing

Apr 7 '14
renaroo:


Nightwing: Old Friends, New EnemiesAction Comics (1938-2011) #614

"Gas pumped in… God! Sometimes I can’t believe what people will do." 
I… this was the best post I’ve made today. I’ll admit it fully.
Dick’s just so disgusted at that showerhead, too. Like tone it down, bro! Chill!

I have to admit, I can’t find this remotely funny because the first thing the gas shower made me think of was the Holocaust. Because that’s exactly what the Nazis did - when the “undesirables” (Jews, Roma, etc.) first arrived at the death camps, they were told to undress so that they could “shower”, but were actually locked into gas chambers to be killed. (You can read more about Nazi use of gas chambers here.)
If Romani!Dick had already been canon by this point, actually, I’d say the expression on his face is because he’s thinking about how many of his people died exactly that way. That’s obviously not what the writers were thinking when they wrote this scene. But it does bring up an interesting point - people often say that Dick’s ethnicity doesn’t add anything to the story besides cliched stereotypes about the Romani people. But I think this is an example of how Dick’s ethnicity could be used to add so much nuance to the story - if you read his character as Romani, the way you understand this scene changes completely.

renaroo:

Nightwing: Old Friends, New Enemies
Action Comics
(1938-2011) #614

"Gas pumped in… God! Sometimes I can’t believe what people will do."

I… this was the best post I’ve made today. I’ll admit it fully.

Dick’s just so disgusted at that showerhead, too. Like tone it down, bro! Chill!

I have to admit, I can’t find this remotely funny because the first thing the gas shower made me think of was the Holocaust. Because that’s exactly what the Nazis did - when the “undesirables” (Jews, Roma, etc.) first arrived at the death camps, they were told to undress so that they could “shower”, but were actually locked into gas chambers to be killed. (You can read more about Nazi use of gas chambers here.)

If Romani!Dick had already been canon by this point, actually, I’d say the expression on his face is because he’s thinking about how many of his people died exactly that way. That’s obviously not what the writers were thinking when they wrote this scene. But it does bring up an interesting point - people often say that Dick’s ethnicity doesn’t add anything to the story besides cliched stereotypes about the Romani people. But I think this is an example of how Dick’s ethnicity could be used to add so much nuance to the story - if you read his character as Romani, the way you understand this scene changes completely.

Mar 27 '14

dickie-grayson:

—nightwing #80

#how are you surprised when people figure out your identity?

To be fair, what people tend to overlook with scenes like this is that the fact that Dick used to be a circus acrobat isn’t part of his secret identity, it’s part of his regular identity as Dick Grayson. So it’s not like he’s actually giving away some huge secret by demonstrating that he can do some impressive flips.

(Source: falling-serenity)

Mar 17 '14

monkeyscandance:

It’s been nearly a year since I last added something to this meme and I felt like drawing bby!Damian again!

I am really happy with the progress, but I don’t know what happened in August 2012 there…

Mar 13 '14

I don’t necessarily love everything about the issue of The Brave and the Bold that the first scene here comes from, but I couldn’t help but notice this parallel and thought it was kind of interesting.

A lot of people seem to interpret Dick as having been really hung up on Barbara’s past, but personally that’s not my take on it. I think that when they’re being written well, what Dick does for Babs is he reminds her that that part of her life isn’t over - she can still dance, and she can still fly, and she can still have fun and do the things that make her feel free and happy and alive. She’s changed and grown up a lot, it’s true, but that doesn’t mean she needs to let that side of herself go.

So the people who interpret Dick as being hung up with the past (including writers like Devin Grayson) are getting it wrong, IMO. Dick isn’t hung up on the fun they used to have, he’s focused on reminding Babs that having that kind of fun doesn’t need to be in the past.

Mar 11 '14

Some Dick&Babs Li’l Gotham icons.

Way back when Li’l Gotham was first announced, I remember saying one of the things I most hoped for was that Babs would be Oracle and that there would be Dick/Babs interaction which would be more like their pre-reboot dynamic.

Now that the series is (sadly) over, one thing I can be happy about is that they definitely did not disappoint! Babs was Oracle, she was awesome, and there were tons of adorable Dick/Babs moments which felt more like my Dick and Babs than anything we’d gotten in a long time.

And yes, I do consider this more canon than anything currently happening to them in the Nu52 continuity.

Hope you enjoy these, guys - feel free to use! :-)

Mar 6 '14

One of Bruce’s least attractive qualities to me, as a parent/mentor, is the way he’s constantly comparing the kids to each other. It’s like he’s constantly ranking them in order somehow, deciding who’s better than whom, or has the potential to be better than whom, etc., etc. Which would be fine, except that he doesn’t just think this to himself, he says it right to their freaking faces. What kind of effect is that gonna have?

I know a lot of people find these kind of scenes heartwarming, but to me, it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Sure, Bruce is complimenting one kid, but he’s insulting another one in the same breath. And more to the point, he’s creating (IMO) a very unhealthy attitude of competition, where each kid is measured up not just by their own standards, but against all of the others’.

I can’t help but feel it creates a situation where, at the end of the day, no one really wins.

Jan 26 '14

Anonymous asked:

Dick and Babs :)

redlacedbird:

No ship bashing is going on here (obviously), it’s just that I got carried away and wrote too much. Brace yourselves :| 

Read More

This is all good but I do want to step in and say that in the original canon, Babs was 7 years older than Dick. This was made pretty darn explicit:

From Batman Family #7 (September/October 1976) "I’ve got the what for her? Listen, she’s got to be seven years older -“ "Older women looked pretty good when I was your age, kid…” Perfection! We get a pretty solid hint at the age difference between Dick and Barbara and we get Dick-Bruce hilarity. I really couldn’t ask for more.

(Batman Family #7)

Barbara: I was getting used to having Dick around on these jaunts—I sorta miss him! He’s really kind of cute with his crush on me and I… What am I thinking? I’m 25 years old, and he’s still a teenager!  Batman Family 10

(Batman Family #10. Dick was in Hudson University at this time, so he was around 18 to Barbara’s 25 - which fits perfectly with the 7-year age difference mentioned in the last scene.)

Fans (and early shippers!) even commented on this at the time:

From the letter column of Batman Family #5 (May-June 1976) People shipped Dick and Babs even in the 1970s. Of course, it took DC over twenty years to step into the 20th century and realize that older woman-younger man relationships are okay.

(For the record, while I agree with Mr. (or Ms.?) Rivera in sentiment, I would point out that while 18 may technically be of legal age, a relationship between a teenager and someone significantly older is often problematic, regardless of gender.)

So you can accept whatever canon you like about their age difference (DC’s certainly changed their story plenty over the years), but you can’t really come along and say “Babs was 17 when she became Batgirl and anyone who doesn’t think so is wrong”, because that wasn’t the original canon and it wouldn’t become the canon until decades later. Per the original canon, Babs was old enough to already have a PhD when she became Batgirl:

image

That’s from Detective Comics #359, the issue that introduced Babs to the world. In fact, those are the very first panels she appears in in her civilian identity. And one of the very first facts that the story goes out of its way to establish about her is that she has a PhD and graduated summa cum laude (with the highest honors).

Bear in mind that this was the sixties. The women’s lib movement was in full swing. Women around the world were fighting to break glass ceilings in education and careers. Barbara was officially conceived of and promoted as the new, feminist Batgirl (as opposed to Betty and Kathy Kane). If you don’t think her degree of education was part of that, I think you’re missing a big part of the picture here. Barbara’s PhD was a symbol of her power and intelligence, just like the fact that she later became a Congresswoman.

And the fact that DC felt the need to de-age her over the years, until in later versions of her backstory she’s too young to have had a PhD when she became Batgirl (although I’d point out that even in Batgirl: Year One, she’s already graduated from college early, not high school. That’s why she’s thinking of applying to police academy. Read the book’s Wikipedia entry, for example), too young to have been a Congresswoman in her Batgirl years, and so DC just retconned these elements right out of her backstory… well, that says something pretty un-empowering, IMO. Especially when you consider that Barbara’s romantic relationship with Dick, and the idea that people would be put off by having her be too much older than him, may well have played a role in the change. I’ll give DC the benefit of the doubt and say maybe they were just trying to appeal to a younger audience, and thought books like Batgirl: Year One would sell better with a teenage protagonist. But the implications there aren’t so great, either.

But back to the original canon. Regardless of which origin story you’re going by, you’re definitely right that Dick was a teenager and not a child when Babs became Batgirl. How old exactly? Unclear. Old enough to have already founded the Teen Titans a while back (the Titans were officially formed in 1965, Babs debuted in ‘67). Also old enough that it wouldn’t be too long before he headed off to college (which happened in Batman #217, published in 1969). But still young enough that he was drawn as significantly shorter than Babs:

image

(Detective Comics #359)

So… my best guess would be that Dick’s around sixteen here, and that him heading off to college was around a year later in comic-time. According to the seven-year age difference established in the Batman Family era, that makes Babs around 23. Which is a bit young to already have a PhD, but we can just accept that maybe she skipped some grades in this version of canon as well. ;-)

Sorry to be going on and on about this, but the thing is, I’m one of those people who actually likes Dick and Barbara’s original age difference. I like Babs having been a bit older and more mature (and do bear in mind, 23 is still not old) as Batgirl. I like her already having been highly educated. I like the element it brings to Dick’s unrequited crush on her back in his Robin days - it makes sense to me that as someone who was dealing with some very adult issues at a young age and had to grow up fast, Dick would have felt drawn towards someone older. It also makes sense that Babs, although thinking he was cute, wouldn’t have been interested in a teenager. (The fact that my own first crush was on someone older probably also factors into why I like this version of canon so much, I admit!) And I also like the element it bring to their adult relationship - even today, it’s still common to see younger women paired up with older men but pretty rare to see the reverse (especially without obnoxious “cougar” comments). And it’s not like seven years would have been a problematic age difference once they were in their twenties-thirties (which is when they actually became a couple, as you rightly point out).

So, IDK, I actually really like the original canon here, and I don’t think there was any good reason for DC to change it. And you can absolutely think differently, but the point is that people who canon Babs as being significantly older than Dick aren’t actually wrong.

Jan 12 '14
oxers:

Lu has the weirdest suggestions

Excuse you, you mean the greatest suggestions. :-P
*laughs* But seriously, thanks for always humoring my wacky requests! This is super cute! :-)

oxers:

Lu has the weirdest suggestions

Excuse you, you mean the greatest suggestions. :-P

*laughs* But seriously, thanks for always humoring my wacky requests! This is super cute! :-)

Dec 10 '13

cleromancy:

You’re my brother, Dick. You’ll always be there for me.

oh my gOd

(Source: )

Dec 10 '13

Oh, this is her

No regrets

I embrace your defects 

To confess 

You were my every wish(x)

Dec 10 '13
fuckyeahcassandracain:

Love this brief little moment of reassurance.

I really wish we got to see more of this kind of relationship between Dick and Cass.

fuckyeahcassandracain:

Love this brief little moment of reassurance.

I really wish we got to see more of this kind of relationship between Dick and Cass.

Dec 5 '13

beccs-art:

I have many faves from DC, way too many, but Dick will always hold a special place somehow. uwu ♥ you can take the boy out of the circus but you can’t take away the circus out of the boy.

and why the pink chewing gum? because i’m a douchebag, that’s why.

(Source: last-heroine)

Nov 13 '13
schizoauthoress:

:D

… You guys. Remember what I wrote about Dick’s smile?
… This actually totally works for me. O__O

schizoauthoress:

:D

… You guys. Remember what I wrote about Dick’s smile?

… This actually totally works for me. O__O

Nov 13 '13

schizoauthoress:

Amadeus Lundberg as Dick Grayson

He’s part Romani, as Dick Grayson is canonically.  He’s got the hair.  He’s got the unique fashion sense.  And the guy’s a dancer (as well as a singer, though that’s a neutral point when it comes to my “perfect Dick Grayson” argument).

Important question, though: Can he act?

(Source: eventhorizonchaos)

Oct 3 '13

writeroffates:

Under the cut because this is long, by the way, it’s a DickBabs moment, but not a particularly happy one, so warnings there, but anyone who is knowledgable about Babs and Dick’s relationship, I’d like your opinion on whether it was OOC of Dick or not.

Read More

Devin Grayson, for some reason, LOVES to write Dick as callously oblivious and Babs as perpetually annoyed. To me, that characterization of Dick reached its absolute point of unbelievability in this scene, from Nightwing #85:

http://25.media.tumblr.com/5dc64d9a498af077de2a5753d7b71f8e/tumblr_mhx6ybBDeV1s5059xo1_500.png

Okay, first of all, I have issues with the way Babs is characterized here too, but that’s an entirely separate post.

But Dick, just… no. Babs basically never voices that kind of naked insecurity over her disability, and whether you consider it in-character for her here or not, there’s no doubt that if she did, Dick would immediately take notice and respond appropriately to reassure her. The way he brushes her off here is so cruelly insensitive to her feelings, it just makes me wince.

I mean, just compare that to how well he reads and responds to her insecurities in Nightwing #38 (written by Chuck Dixon), for example:

image

Now, Dick’s not perfect, and it’s certainly plausible that he could be too distracted or overworked/tired to read Barbara’s (or anyone else’s) mood correctly every once in a while. It’s also perfectly plausible that this could lead to him being accidentally insensitive now and then. I can also see him realizing Babs was in a bad mood and thinking being silly would cheer her up, but having it misfire.

But Dick is, as a rule, a pretty sensitive guy, and he’s good at reading people. Especially someone he’s as close to as Babs. Unless there was something pretty major distracting him, he’d likely realize his mistake pretty quickly in either of those situations, switch into serious mode, and talk things out properly with her. The way Devin Grayson just writes him as obliviously trampling all over Barbara’s feelings all the time often feels false to me.

The fact is, the way Devin Grayson writes their relationship, you almost feel like Dick doesn’t really understand Babs (however well he might think he does), and Babs may love Dick but she doesn’t really like him all that much. Neither of which is the way I see their relationship, nor the way other writers have portrayed it.

What’s particularly frustrating about Devin Grayson’s writing is that she’ll get it so completely right one moment, and then so utterly wrong the next. She’s a good (if problematic) writer, and her characterization can be wonderfully spot-on at times. But issues like this keep me from really appreciating the way she writes Dick and Babs.