It's Only the End if You Want it to Be
Posts tagged nightwing
I’ve been thinking a lot about Dick Grayson and Tim Drake, and their skills as detectives. Now, for the most part, Tim Drake is shown to be a better detective (or at least, the potential to become a better detective) than Dick, and that’s fine. But this sadly seems to come with a lack of emphasis…
The Dick Grayson I grew up with WAS logical and intelligent. Of course he was. He was a detective, trained by the Batman since he was 8 years old until he was old enough to leave the nest.
If you can read “Who is Donna Troy” from the New Teen Titans series, the man basically tracked down Donna Troy’s biological mother with evidence (a rag doll) found in the remains of the demolished apartment building firemen found her in as a baby.
Dick Grayson is even shown using a laboratory.
All through his association with the Titans, he was written as having a logical mind and detective skills. He didn’t have any super powers, but he was the leader of the team because of his amazing mind.
^ This. If you read New Teen Titans, Dick was always very much characterized by logical intelligence. If you read this interview from 1998, for example, Marv Wolfman even talks about “Nightwing’s logical approach to life” being an essential part of the character that he took into account when conceptualizing the Titans.
I think what tends to happen is that Dick’s characterization fluctuates depending on the characters he’s surrounded by. Among the Titans, he (along with Vic and Donna) was “the logical one”, as opposed to characters like Kory, Gar, Roy and Wally who are all more emotional. And sure enough, even in later years, when you see Dick surrounded by the Titans he once again falls back into the role of “the logical one”:
(This scene is from Devin Grayson’s Titans run, and while we all know I have plenty negative to say about Devin Grayson, one thing she almost invariably gets right is her ability to portray Dick as someone who is both logically intelligent and emotionally expressive. Something you see even in this scene, I think - at first you see Dick very much in “Batman mode”, all steely logic and focus… and then he cracks a joke, and you’re reminded that he’s not Batman, he’s Dick. Very good characterization, IMO.)
But when Dick is surrounded by the Batfamily, as opposed to the Titans or a similar group, that side of him tends to get emphasized far less. Why? Because the Batfamily as a group are all defined by being logical - they’re detectives. It’s what they do. And that’s especially true of the members Dick interacted with most (until Damian came along, anyway) - Bruce, and Babs, and Tim. All characters who are defined by being highly intelligent and highly logical. So if you play up that aspect of Dick when he’s with them, there’s no contrast. Dick can’t be “the logical one” when he’s interacting with characters who are equally logical.
As a result, when you see Dick interacting with those characters, he tends to fall into the role of “the emotional one” as opposed to “the logical one”:
An important thing to understand: These are both legitimate sides of Dick’s character. He is both highly emotional and logical, and if you lose one of those aspects, his characterization is going to come out skewed. A good writer is able to balance both sides of his character; a bad writer focuses too much on creating false dichotomies between him and other characters, and ends up ignoring large aspects of who he is.
With Dick and Tim specifically, this idea of them as The Emotional One and The Logical One actually took quite a bit of time to evolve. If you look at some of their earliest interactions, you see Dick very much in the role of The Logical One:
Which makes sense, because Tim was still honing his detective skills here, and Dick was teaching him. Therefore, it makes sense to emphasize Dick’s logical side. It’s also relevant that this is NTT-era Dick, written by Marv Wolfman, and Dick was always characterized more as a logically intelligent character in that era, as I’ve explained above.
By the time you get to Nightwing #6 (1997, written by Chuck Dixon), you see their roles evolving:
Tim is now the “more cerebral” one, being contrasted with Dick’s “streetsmarts”. (If any of the Robins are particularly street-smart I would’ve said it was Jason and Steph, but ok.)
But, note that Tim also tells Dick that “I’m not half the detective you are” - an interesting comment, considering that in recent years Tim is generally acknowledged as the best detective in the Batfamily after Bruce, with the potential to outstrip even him.
And there’s nothing wrong with that. Tim was a character defined by being cerebral from the start, and it makes perfect sense for his detective skills to be where his character truly shines - even to the point where he eventually outpaces Dick.
The important thing here, though, is that Tim’s skills evolving shouldn’t make Dick’s magically regress, and when writers forget that Dick can think logically or has detective skills just because he happens to be standing next to Tim (or Bruce, or Babs), we have a problem.
Dick Grayson: Giving every single guy he comes into contact with an inferiority complex since 1940.
(OK not literally but sometimes it sure does seem that way.)
(Jason isn’t even included in this post because Jason is an entirely different can of worms.)
(Further thoughts after the cut.)
You weren’t at the funeral. People asked about you.
Dick really fucked up with Jason. Both Bruce and Dick did, in a sense. I think that’s why he was such a good brother for Tim.
Uh, how did Dick fuck up again? For one thing, he was on another planet when Jason died, and for another, Bruce even didn’t tell him about Jason’s death.
# i want to type out a long rant but I have to head out in a few minutes # i can’t recall where these particular panels are from though
They’re from New Titans #55. (The issue where Dick finds out about Jason’s death. Also the infamous Bruce-punches-Dick issue.)
And thank you! I was going to comment on this myself, but it’s nice to see that my work has been done for me. :-)
Frankly, I’ve always been amazed that Bruce actually had the nerve to try and turn this around on Dick, when he was the one who, y’know, couldn’t be bothered to tell Dick that his little brother had died, let alone when the funeral was. (Not that this was an isolated incident - in this time period, Bruce seemed to love trying to blame Dick for situations that he himself had created, which tends to make me distinctly uncomfortable when you consider that transferring blame is one of the key signs of an emotional abuser. And when you add in the fact that this scene ends with Bruce punching Dick in the face and throwing him out, the abusive undertones here become… well, not really undertones anymore. I could go on for quite a while about how disturbing I find all of this, but, uh, I should probably stop here.)
I mean, I get that Bruce was grieving, but the way he acts throughout this entire issue just makes me cringe. (Which is the point, of course… but that doesn’t make it less painful to watch.)
213 notes (via graydaughters & varlandgear)
- The New Titans 60
The Titans are looking for Dick. Several things to note about this:
- They’re really putting in an effort to find him!
- Dick’s a slob. People who are very tidy in their heads tend to not be so tidy with the things around them. Super-smart detective equals slobby cleaning tendencies.
- I have too high thoughts about Tim and don’t want him to have taken something from Dick’s safe, but he is the only one who can have done it.
- Roy! Nice seeing you again. :)
Interesting about the slob thing. I’m smart, but my brain is like a pinball machine, so I try to keep my living space tidy so that SOMETHING is organized. :)
I don’t actually think there’s one way that all smart people are, but in Dick’s case, his messy habits are well-established canon, going back to the days when he was living in the Manor and Bruce would complain about it:
(Scan from Batman #217, 1969, which was the issue where Dick left for college. I always think this scene is precious, because it’s just so utterly parental that even when Bruce is getting all emotional about Dick leaving, he’s still commenting on how messy his room is, haha.)
Tim is also canonically a slob, BTW, despite the fact that I sometimes see fans headcanoning him as some kind of neat-freak:
(Scans from Robin #43 and #45 via fragileicicle, who is my go-to source on all things Tim Drake.)
Are any of the Batkids actually neat? It would be funny if it actually turned out to be, like, Jason who was the neat one or something.
26 notes (via molliehaswords & yellowcape)
“Dick has so many connections to other characters. In many ways, even more than Superman or Batman, Nightwing is the soul, the linchpin, of the DCU. He’s well respected by everyone, known to the JLA, the Titans, the Outsiders, Birds of Prey – everyone looks to him for advice, for friendship, for his skills. He’s the natural leader of the DCU.” - Phil Jimenez
~Casually reminds people that Dick Grayson is both The Heart and The Leader of the entire freakin’ DCU and if you don’t think that’s awesome then frankly I don’t even know what to do with you~
Dick, you’re so spoiled.
#honestly dick #i mean really #he’s such a rich kid though #like he’d totally deny it because he’s from the CIRCUS #but in reality he’s basically been a billionaire since he was eight #damian is the most spoilt no-one can argue with that #but i think dick and tim really do take being incredibly rich… well #not exactly for granted #but they’ve never had to worry about money themselves ever and that obviously gives a certain perspective #on life you know #obviously they’re batkids they’re hardly sheltered #but it wouldn’t really occur to them that having no money is a thing that could happen to them #(jason is a whole nother story but these tags are long and stupid enough already)
It isn’t really true that having to worry about money is something Dick’s never known, though. In New Teen Titans #60 (I don’t have a scan, but I’ve just read this recently so you’ll have to believe me), there’s this scene where Mr. Haly is telling Dick about how even in the “good old days”, the circus was barely breaking even in terms of money. And if the circus was barely breaking even, the performers were getting paid next to nothing, including Dick and his parents.
I wouldn’t necessarily say Dick worried about that (Mr. Haly comments in the same scene that no one cared if the circus was struggling because “we were having fun!” which is, I think, the attitude Dick was raised to have about money - it doesn’t matter how much or how little you have, as long as you’re doing something you love), but his family did struggle financially somewhat. He certainly wasn’t poor on the level of Jason, or even Steph, but the Graysons weren’t exactly rolling in spare cash, either.
I think a lot of fans tend to assume (see: this post, for example) that because the Flying Graysons were so awesomely talented they must have been totally rich and famous, but the canon doesn’t really support that, IMO. There doesn’t seem to be much canon evidence that they were necessarily even particularly well-known, and it’s outright stated that the circus struggled financially. I mean, the thing is… show biz isn’t an easy business, and being awesomely talented isn’t necessarily a guarantee of financial security. Even Harry freakin’ Houdini had times when he was down to his last five dollars.
That doesn’t negate the privilege that Dick came into when Bruce took him in, but it’s still a necessary distinction that, unlike Bruce and Tim and Damian, he wasn’t born into that privilege. (Something Bruce outright states in this scene - “Dick wasn’t like me. He didn’t come from a world of privilege.”)
What is true is that Dick has something of a “rich-boy” attitude in that he has no problem solving problems by throwing money at them, and I could find you example after example of that. (“Haly’s Circus might be going out of business? No problem, I’ll just buy it!” “Bounty on Amy’s head? No problem, I’ll just pay more!” “Oh, and Bruce, could you just buy me this building? And this one and this one and this one. You’re the best!”)
It’s interesting because as a rule, Dick doesn’t seem to like the idea of living off of Bruce’s charity (one of the reasons he works for a living, even though he has no financial need to), but when he sees a way that he can use money to help someone or facilitate his work as Nightwing, he has absolutely no problem asking Bruce for huge sums of money - or using his connections.
I tend to think wealth and privilege are things Dick isn’t entirely comfortable with - he’s more at home in a small apartment than a mansion - but he also has no problem using them to his advantage, especially for something he considers a good cause. In that second aspect, he’s a lot like Bruce, who (IMO) sees money mainly as just another tool that can be useful in his larger mission. The difference is that Bruce, having been born into a life of wealth, feels more natural in that lifestyle than Dick does.
Rating: G
Pairing: Dick Grayson/Barbara Gordon
Words: 1103
Notes: Dick and Babs fluff, fluff, fluff. Or, “How things totally should have gone.”
Commission for Emeroo. Let me know if you need anything changed.
Dress inspired by this lovely drawing by murrmernator.
#
Dick catches sight of her again, across the room. Between the men and their immaculately pressed suits and the women in their designer dresses, her own dress putting them all to shame. Everything about her putting them all to shame: her perfectly curled red hair, the elegant arch of her neck, her sly and clever side-smile as she eyes someone and opens her mouth for some sharp comment that will undoubtedly do the same.
I concur with “How things totally should have gone”. And did, in my head.
This fanfic is lovely and beautifully written and I highly suggest that all of you read it.
- The New Titans 57
Dick talks about his time as Robin, about Jason and blaming himself. And about him and Kory.
This is all excellent and emotional stuff (I love that Dick actually sits down and works through his issues in a healthy way), but I just read “I have a tendency toward self-blame” and burst out laughing.
Nooo, Dick, really? You? Self-blame? I never knew this, OMG.
*hugs Dick to pieces* My darling, adorable boy, that has got to be the biggest understatement I’ve head.
43 notes (via yellowcape)
I have a deep gratitude towards artists who draw good Discowing fanart. He hasn’t worn that costume since 1992, and most fans (myself included) seem to prefer the blue stripe look, so it’s understandable that Discowing tends to be more ignored in fanart. But I still have a lot of love for the Dick of that era (disco collar and all), so it pleases me to find good Discowing art.
Besides, making this costume work is harder as an artist, so doesn’t that make it all the more impressive?
Art by: mgnemesi, gargoyleface, kreetchur, Bear-Goggles, and eri04.
You know what makes everything better? Dick’s sense of humor. That’s what.
Writing a funny character is hard, I think, because humor is such a subjective thing. What’s knee-slappingly funny to one person will just sound stupid to another. Personally, my sense of humor tends to run more towards snark and deadpan humor, so snarky!Dick tends to be my favorite.
“Be careful, Red Robin. They’re wearing sunglasses at night. Which means they’re very, very cool” still remains one of my favorite lines of all time. xD
On Dick Grayson’s Flaws (made rebloggable by request)
writeroffates asked:
Question for you. What do you think is Dick’s biggest fault? His weakness?
I love this question. Literally, I want to hug this question.
He has a lot, really. I know I’ll jokingly say things like “Dick is flawless” sometimes, but of course I’m only kidding. And when I’m being serious, the truth is that I love that Dick is so very human and flawed. He’s a great character because he is so very relatable, flaws and all.
Anyway, I guess I’ll start off by saying that I once got this question about Clark, and my answer was (in a nutshell) “he can be so idealistic that he’s a bit narrow-minded”, and that’s definitely applicable to Dick, too. Dick tries to see the good in everyone, but he has a pretty black-and-white view of Good vs. Evil, and he can be rather preachy with someone who doesn’t subscribe to his moral code. If you look at his interactions with Helena, for example, you see that come into play. Or even that scene (which I love btw) where he tells Tim not to use the Lazarus Pits. It’s always coming from a good place, but yeah, Dick can be a bit dogmatic when it comes to insisting that His Way Is the Right Way.
Like most flaws, this is a good quality when not taken to an extreme. Dick has high ideals and he believes deeply in them. But the darker side of that is that he can have this absolutely pigheaded conviction that he knows what’s right and anyone who thinks differently is wrong.
I don’t that’s his biggest weakness, but it’s definitely a trap he can fall into sometimes.
Honestly, I think Dick’s biggest weaknesses come from one of his defining qualities - he’s a person who feels emotions very, very strongly. And when people talk about that most of the time, they tend to be thinking of positive emotions, like love or joy. Emotions that Dick personifies when he’s in a positive frame of mind. But what some people tend to forget is, Dick feels negative emotions equally strongly. And that’s when he tends to get into trouble.
Like, oops-I-just-lost-control-and-beat-the-Joker-to-death kind of trouble:
It takes a lot to push Dick to this point, but if you get him there? God help you. Like I’ve said in the past, Dick is not all sunshine and joy. He has one hell of a temper, and it can get pretty nasty if you push him far enough. Especially if you get to him through his loved ones, like the Joker did here. The fact that Dick loves people so strongly is a great quality, but it can also lead to some awful results if someone pushes the wrong (or, right) buttons.
And because Dick is so idealistic, he’ll never just be like “Yeah, I lost control, what of it?” No, every time Dick slips - even when it’s just a small slip, much less the rare occasion when he really loses it - the boy positively stews over it. He broods. He beats himself up. He lashes out at the people who are trying to help.
YIKES. And in case anyone thinks I write it off with “Out-of-Character” every time Dick acts like a jerk… this is perfectly in-character to me. Dick expects himself to be perfect, and when he doesn’t live up to his own impossible standards, it gets pretty darn ugly.
And the thing is, Dick just doesn’t know when to stop pushing himself. If there’s one thing the comics have actually been remarkably consistent on over the years, it’s that:
Note the “I haven’t had more than three hours’ sleep in the last three days”? Yeah. This also remains consistent through the years. My boy is a workaholic, and while his “I’ll sleep when I’m dead” attitude is all very admirable in abstract, in practice it can lead to him pushing himself to his limits, refusing to admit it when he needs to rest, and acting snippy towards everyone around him. Which is why he very, very much needs someone in his life who can make him see when he needs to slow down for a minute, whether that person is Kory or Babs or even Alfred. Because too often, Dick is too stubborn to see that for himself.
It leads to a really vicious cycle, in the end: Dick expects himself to be perfect —> Dick pushes himself past his limits —> Dick starts slipping up because he’s stressed and exhausted —> Dick beats himself up for not being perfect —> Dick gets even more stressed and exhausted —> Dick keeps trying that much harder to be perfect —> Dick inevitably cracks —> Dick beats himself up for not being perfect
And when that quality goes unchecked, it just keeps getting worse and worse until something eventually gives.
So that’s Dick’s biggest flaw, IMO.
Question for you. What do you think is Dick's biggest fault? His weakness?
I love this question. Literally, I want to hug this question.
He has a lot, really. I know I’ll jokingly say things like “Dick is flawless” sometimes, but of course I’m only kidding. And when I’m being serious, the truth is that I love that Dick is so very human and flawed. He’s a great character because he is so very relatable, flaws and all.
Anyway, I guess I’ll start off by saying that I once got this question about Clark, and my answer was (in a nutshell) “he can be so idealistic that he’s a bit narrow-minded”, and that’s definitely applicable to Dick, too. Dick tries to see the good in everyone, but he has a pretty black-and-white view of Good vs. Evil, and he can be rather preachy with someone who doesn’t subscribe to his moral code. If you look at his interactions with Helena, for example, you see that come into play. Or even that scene (which I love btw) where he tells Tim not to use the Lazarus Pits. It’s always coming from a good place, but yeah, Dick can be a bit dogmatic when it comes to insisting that His Way Is the Right Way.
Like most flaws, this is a good quality when not taken to an extreme. Dick has high ideals and he believes deeply in them. But the darker side of that is that he can have this absolutely pigheaded conviction that he knows what’s right and anyone who thinks differently is wrong.
I don’t that’s his biggest weakness, but it’s definitely a trap he can fall into sometimes.
Honestly, I think Dick’s biggest weaknesses come from one of his defining qualities - he’s a person who feels emotions very, very strongly. And when people talk about that most of the time, they tend to be thinking of positive emotions, like love or joy. Emotions that Dick personifies when he’s in a positive frame of mind. But what some people tend to forget is, Dick feels negative emotions equally strongly. And that’s when he tends to get into trouble.
Like, oops-I-just-lost-control-and-beat-the-Joker-to-death kind of trouble:
It takes a lot to push Dick to this point, but if you get him there? God help you. Like I’ve said in the past, Dick is not all sunshine and joy. He has one hell of a temper, and it can get pretty nasty if you push him far enough. Especially if you get to him through his loved ones, like the Joker did here. The fact that Dick loves people so strongly is a great quality, but it can also lead to some awful results if someone pushes the wrong (or, right) buttons.
And because Dick is so idealistic, he’ll never just be like “Yeah, I lost control, what of it?” No, every time Dick slips - even when it’s just a small slip, much less the rare occasion when he really loses it - the boy positively stews over it. He broods. He beats himself up. He lashes out at the people who are trying to help.
YIKES. And in case anyone thinks I write it off with “Out-of-Character” every time Dick acts like a jerk… this is perfectly in-character to me. Dick expects himself to be perfect, and when he doesn’t live up to his own impossible standards, it gets pretty darn ugly.
And the thing is, Dick just doesn’t know when to stop pushing himself. If there’s one thing the comics have actually been remarkably consistent on over the years, it’s that:
Note the “I haven’t had more than three hours’ sleep in the last three days”? Yeah. This also remains consistent through the years. My boy is a workaholic, and while his “I’ll sleep when I’m dead” attitude is all very admirable in abstract, in practice it can lead to him pushing himself to his limits, refusing to admit it when he needs to rest, and acting snippy towards everyone around him. Which is why he very, very much needs someone in his life who can make him see when he needs to slow down for a minute, whether that person is Kory or Babs or even Alfred. Because too often, Dick is too stubborn to see that for himself.
It leads to a really vicious cycle, in the end: Dick expects himself to be perfect —> Dick pushes himself past his limits —> Dick starts slipping up because he’s stressed and exhausted —> Dick beats himself up for not being perfect —> Dick gets even more stressed and exhausted —> Dick keeps trying that much harder to be perfect —> Dick inevitably cracks —> Dick beats himself up for not being perfect
And when that quality goes unchecked, it just keeps getting worse and worse until something eventually gives.
So that’s Dick’s biggest flaw, IMO.
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