It's Only the End if You Want it to Be
Posts tagged robin
Okay I got impatient for when I asked last time, so I looked up as much information as I could for evidence that Tim Drake is canonically Jewish, and all I could really find was his mother Janet was Jewish and Chuck Dixon intended to write him as such.
Anybody have any further evidence?
I do think Tim’s mom being Jewish is still up for debate (since it was never made explicit), but the quote from Dixon is actually pretty substantial. He said that he has always viewed Tim as being Jewish, and most probably written him with that mindset. So it’s not too far-fetched to say that he’s ambiguously Jewish.
I thought he was just ethnically Jewish because of the whole paced-down-by-mom-thing
luanna255 is ‘ethnicly’ the right term?
Yes, although that’s not the whole story.
If Tim’s mom is Jewish, he would be considered Jewish by any religious authority, as well as ethnically Jewish, obviously.
If Tim’s dad is Jewish, he would be considered simply a non-Jew by many religious authorities, ethnically Jewish but not religiously Jewish to those who make that distinction (such as yours truly), and religiously Jewish by a few more lenient religious authorities.
But when you’re writing a character, what’s far more important than how other people might label them is how they’d label themselves, so I think the real question here is: Does Tim consider himself Jewish?
We’ve never seen him depicted as religiously observant (even insofar as celebrating the holidays in some way like many non-religious Jews do - Kate lights a menorah in one issue, for example), so I’d have to say he doesn’t view Judaism as his religion. But he could still identify as ethnically Jewish, feel kinship with the Jews as his people, or have his identity informed by Judaism in some aspect. The problem is, it would be hard to make the case that he does, because (to my knowledge) we’ve never seen that to be true. He could be written that way in the future, but based on the canon we’ve got I’d have to say so far there’s little evidence that Tim thinks of himself as a Jew in any way.
20 notes (via toalwaysbeme & herestoyoumsholly)
Just some of my all-time favorite DC superhero costumes.
If anyone is wondering why none of the really classic looks like Superman’s or Wonder Woman’s are on here, it’s because at this point I’m just so used to seeing them that I’m honestly not sure if I actually like them, or if I’m just too familiar with them to evaluate objectively. :-P
I’m usually pretty flexible with costumes, although I think the really iconic looks should just be left alone. But sometimes a character just gets a look that I think is just so gorgeous, and so perfect for them, that I can’t imagine why anyone would try to mess with it. And for the most part, that’s how I feel about these looks.
So Bruce’s reasons for for deciding to reveal his identity to Dick here are—
- Dick is going to go out to find his parents’ killers on his own and is going to (and nearly just did) get himself killed in the process unless he gets training/has supervision.
- Guilt regarding what happened to Harvey Dent.
I find the modern era relationship between Bruce, Dick and Harvey fascinating, and it’s just very interesting to me that Bruce is comparing them in this moment, and that it’s an influencing factor here, especially with how things play out in Robin: Year One.
(Batman: Dark Victory/Robin: Year One)
Did Jeph take this from BTAS or did the writers see this comic and adapt it into the show?
As far as I’m aware, the “Dick going to find the killer on his own” thing did originate with B:TAS, or at least it’s the earliest example of that I know. (Someone please correct me if that isn’t true.) In previous versions, there wasn’t really time for Dick to be going out on his own since Bruce generally took him to the Batcave right away after the death of Dick’s parents, revealing his identity there. Even Batman: Year Three which was one of the major influences on “Robin’s Reckoning” had Bruce revealing his secret right after he got custody of Dick.
(Sorry to pimp myself, but that question is a large part of why I put together this chart because the ways that different versions of Dick’s origin influenced each other and how the story and mythos evolves in the retellings fascinates me.)
Essentially though, that whole concept became a fairly accepted idea pretty fast, even outside of B:TAS, and was used in several other things shortly after— it was prominent in the Batman Forever movie from 1995, as well as Robin Annual #4 (Chuck Dixon’s origin for Dick) and also Legends of the Dark Knight #100 (Denny O’ Neil), all of which predate Dark Victory.
So Leob did draw influence from B:TAS, and that shows, but he also wasn’t the first to use it, and he also drew from the other versions of the story especially LOTDK #100, going as far as to use similar designs and getting the whole heart attack thing from there. And hey, if it ain’t broke it’s fair game in an adaptation.
Personally, I’m actually a big fan of this idea of Dick being very lost and angry and filled with a desire for revenge shortly after the death of his parents, because I think it does help a little to explain why Bruce took this kid in and trained him and brought him into that world. (In as much as you can ever justify the child endangerment, at least within the rules of that world.) Plus, I really do think the fact that Dick is able to move past this initial anger, and not let his parents’ deaths consume him brings out some interesting things regarding his character and as well as his relationship with Bruce.
(Though the prevalence of the ideas regarding Two-Face here is also just Jeph Leob following up on some things from The Long Halloween.)
Agreed. Young Justice is far from my favorite adaptation, or my favorite incarnation of Dick, but one scene I think they got really right is the one where Diana asks Bruce is he took Dick in “so that he could turn out like you”, and Bruce just replies “So he wouldn’t”. To me, that’s it in a nutshell - Bruce took Dick in so that Dick would have the one thing Bruce never had: someone who genuinely understood his loss, and could be there to help him let go of the pain and the anger. Of course, there’s still room to criticize Bruce’s decision-making here, but I truly believe that he looked at the situation and made what he thought was the best decision for Dick. And what’s more, I believe Dick would tell you in an instant that his life is 100 times the better because Bruce made the decision that he did.
One of the things I also like about how Batman: Dark Victory sets up Bruce’s decision to tell Dick his secret is that it really shows Bruce’s character growth, and how eventually he rejects the idea that he has to be alone. Earlier in the story, you see Bruce’s perception of himself as alone emphasized over and over - with regards his relationship with Harvey, with Selina, with the flashback of him after his parents died. But when Dick comes along, Bruce realizes he doesn’t need to be alone after all, and he takes a chance and lets Dick into his life. And that one choice changes everything.
So, basically every time Dick refers to his friends as his “safety net”, I pretty much start sobbing.
Interesting note: Both of these scenes are from 1999, were written by Devin Grayson let it never be said I never give Devin Grayson credit where credit is due, and drawn by Phil Jimenez. The first is from Nightwing: Secret Files and Origins (which was actually chronologically published later), and the second is from JLA/Titans: The Technis Imperative.
Also, if you haven’t figured it out yet, yes, that top panel is pretty much my favorite comic panel of all time.
Aw man Pete Woods leaves DC. I will always love his Tim Drake and his work on Robin (at 50+ issues, he was the longest artist to stay on Tim’s solo). Wishing him all the best for his future endeavors :’)
Quick Pete Woods Appreciation Post!
12 notes (via fragileicicle)
To friends and to friendship! Long may it last!
it was all so beautiful.
-Tales of the New Teen Titans #4
Why does DC hate beautiful and perfect friendships :(
You know what I love about this?
So often with team books like this, or any situation where the writer wants to create a strong relationship, you see these relationships more or less emerging out of nowhere. They’ve known each other for two issues, and all of a sudden you’ll get these really extreme statements, like “YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON WHO’S EVER BEEN THERE FOR ME” or “THIS TEAM IS THE ONLY FAMILY I’VE EVER HAD”, and it always rings pretty false, because we haven’t seen that relationship develop, and more often than not these extreme statements are just contradicting previous history.
What I love about this team is that it’s so sweet and touching, but it’s understated. It makes sense for where the team is at this point. Some of these teammates know each other from before, of course (Dick, Donna, Wally), but as a whole they’re still getting to know each other, like Dick says here. And there’s a bond that’s starting to form, but it’s not as strong as it’s going to be someday.
Eventually, you see the Titans get to the point where they refer to the team as their family, and at that point, it has weight - because we’ve truly seen them loving each other and supporting each other as a family. We’ve seen those relationships develop.
But here, we’re not at that point yet. Relationships don’t start with “You guys are like family to me”, out of nowhere. Relationships don’t start with “I love you”.
Relationships start with “I really like all of you so much. As friends.”
(Source: kelleycarries)
117 notes (via fyeahdickgrayson & kelleycarries)
Top 13 Favorite Teen Titans Episodes: #9 Haunted (S3 Ep31)
Hard as I try to pick the more lighthearted and adventurous episodes, I guess I am just attracted to the darker ones. Maybe it’s because they have some of the best character development overall.
Slade has been out of the picture for a while since they saw him do a back flop into a chasm of magma/lava at the season 2 finale. The Titans have moved on from Slade. All except for Robin, who just can’t seem to shake the feeling that Slade is not actually gone. After a criminal named Cinder block stirs some trouble, Robin begins seeing Slade, the problem he is the only one who can see him. Has Slade really returned? Or is Robin’s obsession making him suffer a mental break?
When I think about it, Robin never got too much development. If he did it wasn’t really anything too deep. Not to say that he didn’t come across as a complex or even a 3dimensional character by any means, but I feel that more could have been explored. At the same time I feel like for this incarnation of Robin enough was said and showed to make him a good character and a good leader of our team. That being said, this episode was a great one in terms of fleshing out Robin’s complexities.
Robin is kind of hard to pin down in terms of what kind of person he is, though that might have to do with whoever was writing the episode at the time. One thing I noticed though that was consistent is that Robin has the tendency to be an obsessive recluse, especially when it came to Slade. Not hard to see why, considering everything that has transpired between them over the course of the series thus far. Also, considering that Robin was raised by the master of being a brooding, obsessive recluse, it is no surprise that his behavior is the way it is.
Yet the most interesting part I find about this episode is that it shows the damage that this behavior can do to oneself and to others. Obsession can destroy the mind and the relationships around you. Also that one must learn to let go in order to move on and become stronger or else you give the object of that obsession power over you.
I feel like what happens here is kind of made pointless by later events in later seasons but as a stand alone episode it has a great atmosphere and a great message. Definitely give this one a watch sometime :D
*If anyone wishes to reblog this, please do it as a text post so it wont be cut off. Thank you*
7 notes (via misstimelordlover)
I’ve been thinking a lot about Dick Grayson and Tim Drake, and their skills as detectives. Now, for the most part, Tim Drake is shown to be a better detective (or at least, the potential to become a better detective) than Dick, and that’s fine. But this sadly seems to come with a lack of emphasis…
The Dick Grayson I grew up with WAS logical and intelligent. Of course he was. He was a detective, trained by the Batman since he was 8 years old until he was old enough to leave the nest.
If you can read “Who is Donna Troy” from the New Teen Titans series, the man basically tracked down Donna Troy’s biological mother with evidence (a rag doll) found in the remains of the demolished apartment building firemen found her in as a baby.
Dick Grayson is even shown using a laboratory.
All through his association with the Titans, he was written as having a logical mind and detective skills. He didn’t have any super powers, but he was the leader of the team because of his amazing mind.
^ This. If you read New Teen Titans, Dick was always very much characterized by logical intelligence. If you read this interview from 1998, for example, Marv Wolfman even talks about “Nightwing’s logical approach to life” being an essential part of the character that he took into account when conceptualizing the Titans.
I think what tends to happen is that Dick’s characterization fluctuates depending on the characters he’s surrounded by. Among the Titans, he (along with Vic and Donna) was “the logical one”, as opposed to characters like Kory, Gar, Roy and Wally who are all more emotional. And sure enough, even in later years, when you see Dick surrounded by the Titans he once again falls back into the role of “the logical one”:
(This scene is from Devin Grayson’s Titans run, and while we all know I have plenty negative to say about Devin Grayson, one thing she almost invariably gets right is her ability to portray Dick as someone who is both logically intelligent and emotionally expressive. Something you see even in this scene, I think - at first you see Dick very much in “Batman mode”, all steely logic and focus… and then he cracks a joke, and you’re reminded that he’s not Batman, he’s Dick. Very good characterization, IMO.)
But when Dick is surrounded by the Batfamily, as opposed to the Titans or a similar group, that side of him tends to get emphasized far less. Why? Because the Batfamily as a group are all defined by being logical - they’re detectives. It’s what they do. And that’s especially true of the members Dick interacted with most (until Damian came along, anyway) - Bruce, and Babs, and Tim. All characters who are defined by being highly intelligent and highly logical. So if you play up that aspect of Dick when he’s with them, there’s no contrast. Dick can’t be “the logical one” when he’s interacting with characters who are equally logical.
As a result, when you see Dick interacting with those characters, he tends to fall into the role of “the emotional one” as opposed to “the logical one”:
An important thing to understand: These are both legitimate sides of Dick’s character. He is both highly emotional and logical, and if you lose one of those aspects, his characterization is going to come out skewed. A good writer is able to balance both sides of his character; a bad writer focuses too much on creating false dichotomies between him and other characters, and ends up ignoring large aspects of who he is.
With Dick and Tim specifically, this idea of them as The Emotional One and The Logical One actually took quite a bit of time to evolve. If you look at some of their earliest interactions, you see Dick very much in the role of The Logical One:
Which makes sense, because Tim was still honing his detective skills here, and Dick was teaching him. Therefore, it makes sense to emphasize Dick’s logical side. It’s also relevant that this is NTT-era Dick, written by Marv Wolfman, and Dick was always characterized more as a logically intelligent character in that era, as I’ve explained above.
By the time you get to Nightwing #6 (1997, written by Chuck Dixon), you see their roles evolving:
Tim is now the “more cerebral” one, being contrasted with Dick’s “streetsmarts”. (If any of the Robins are particularly street-smart I would’ve said it was Jason and Steph, but ok.)
But, note that Tim also tells Dick that “I’m not half the detective you are” - an interesting comment, considering that in recent years Tim is generally acknowledged as the best detective in the Batfamily after Bruce, with the potential to outstrip even him.
And there’s nothing wrong with that. Tim was a character defined by being cerebral from the start, and it makes perfect sense for his detective skills to be where his character truly shines - even to the point where he eventually outpaces Dick.
The important thing here, though, is that Tim’s skills evolving shouldn’t make Dick’s magically regress, and when writers forget that Dick can think logically or has detective skills just because he happens to be standing next to Tim (or Bruce, or Babs), we have a problem.
As requested, my request drawings have been made rebloggable, but I’m going to group a bunch of them together so I don’t spam up your feeds and my own tumblr.
Wonder Girl and Robin goofing off together, as requested by luanna225
*squeals with excitement* Thank you so much for drawing this for me!! And thank you as well for making the drawings rebloggable, like I requested. :-)
This is absolutely adorable! I love how Dick is just nonchalantly reading while Donna has him up in the air like that, haha. And yay for Donna being a strong and powerful Amazon in every sense of the word!
This is wonderful! <3
69 notes (via buccillustrations)
Dick Grayson: Giving every single guy he comes into contact with an inferiority complex since 1940.
(OK not literally but sometimes it sure does seem that way.)
(Jason isn’t even included in this post because Jason is an entirely different can of worms.)
(Further thoughts after the cut.)
From Robin: Year One.
I was just remembering that I saw a panel just like this with Damian?
Yep! It’s from Streets of Gotham #10:
And for comparison, here’s the full scene with Dick:
I’m not sure if it was an intentional reference (it probably wasn’t), but the two scenes are very similar, most definitely.
30 notes (via the-art-of-obsession)
Impromptu Cameron Stewart’s Art Appreciation Post. Because of reasons.
Note that he is one of the few artists to remember the ethnicity of the Al Ghuls - it even shows clearly when he draws Damian in black-and-white (upper left picture), which I find truly impressive.
Also note Dick’s face. (There isn’t an intelligent comment there. Just… Dick’s face.)
You weren’t at the funeral. People asked about you.
Dick really fucked up with Jason. Both Bruce and Dick did, in a sense. I think that’s why he was such a good brother for Tim.
Uh, how did Dick fuck up again? For one thing, he was on another planet when Jason died, and for another, Bruce even didn’t tell him about Jason’s death.
# i want to type out a long rant but I have to head out in a few minutes # i can’t recall where these particular panels are from though
They’re from New Titans #55. (The issue where Dick finds out about Jason’s death. Also the infamous Bruce-punches-Dick issue.)
And thank you! I was going to comment on this myself, but it’s nice to see that my work has been done for me. :-)
Frankly, I’ve always been amazed that Bruce actually had the nerve to try and turn this around on Dick, when he was the one who, y’know, couldn’t be bothered to tell Dick that his little brother had died, let alone when the funeral was. (Not that this was an isolated incident - in this time period, Bruce seemed to love trying to blame Dick for situations that he himself had created, which tends to make me distinctly uncomfortable when you consider that transferring blame is one of the key signs of an emotional abuser. And when you add in the fact that this scene ends with Bruce punching Dick in the face and throwing him out, the abusive undertones here become… well, not really undertones anymore. I could go on for quite a while about how disturbing I find all of this, but, uh, I should probably stop here.)
I mean, I get that Bruce was grieving, but the way he acts throughout this entire issue just makes me cringe. (Which is the point, of course… but that doesn’t make it less painful to watch.)
214 notes (via graydaughters & varlandgear)
Page 1 of 33
.jpg){kind=link}